There’s a common misconception in America that all lawyers are the scum-of-the-earth, and there’s an especially toxic stigma against entertainment lawyers. We’ve all heard the stories about so-and-so getting stuck in completely unfair deals that they signed when they were wide-eyed teens, a grubby lawyer grinning out of the shadows. But, for the most part, that isn’t the case. In fact, most if not all artists wouldn’t be talking about all that ice on their necks if it weren’t for their attorneys. Though, most people don’t know how far the rabbit hole goes.
Julian Petty is one such attorney, and he’s an illustrious one. Beginning with an internship with Def Jam and then the famed Londell McMillan — whose roster included Michael Jackson and Price, just to name a few — he’s plotted his course on values in direct opposition to the nefarious lawyers wielding their knowledge like hammers for their own best interests and not those of their clientele.
Not only is he the transactional attorney protecting the best interest of the Notorious B.I.G’s estate, but he’s also negotiated deals that serve the careers of Earl Sweatshirt, Vince Staples and more.
Photo by Wendy Le
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Fame Comes & Goes, But Contracts Can Last Forever
DX: Hip-Hop has a long history of talking about lawyers on records. And one of my favorite lines was one of Jay-Z ‘s “Chains are cool to cop but more important are lawyers fees.” Just really how important is it to have someone on your side in your corner from the legal profession as an artist.
Julian Petty: It’s extremely important and the earlier you can get them involved the better. Here’s the thing these contracts that these young people enter into impact several years of their lives. For example, one of my clients is A Tribe Called Quest.
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Originally, the first deal they signed was with Q-Tip and Ali before Phife became a member. Now, this deal was entered into in 1989. These guys were like fresh out high school. One of them actually, I think Ali may have still been in high school and they are still in that deal.
DX: Are you serious?
Julian Petty: Yeah, they have one album left. I mean they haven’t delivered yet. They could have done the album ten years ago. They could have done the album five years ago. I’m just putting it into perspective, that although the the deal was improved over the years when they were on top of the world, you can sign a deal when you’re a young teenager and still be in that deal for years. So the impact of something that lasts that long needs to be scrutinized closely. When you go get a car, you get a 3-year financing, 4 year financing, or 5 year financing. We’re talking about deals that last 10, 15, 20 years at times.
Publishing agreements often times are someone pretty much gaining an ownership share in your songs. If you don’t get into an admin deal where they’re just administering your songs. Often times, new artists try to get a bigger check and they enter into a co-publishing agreement with a company that now owns pretty much half your song. That is an asset that you can pass down to your children and to your great grandchildren. So, that kind of commitment is serious. You need someone who is aware of the nuances of these deals that know the players and the precedent. So yeah, to answer your question, it’s extremely important. As a side note, I wasn’t saying the Tribe thing to say it was a bad thing at all. I just wanted to give you an illustration of how someone can enter into something really as a kid and that same deal can be with them for a very long time.
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DX: I know and I think that is the reality of the situation that a lot of artist growing up, wanting to be famous and wanting to pursue their art don’t really realize that you can get stuck in a contract like that. I remember back in the early 2000’s when the LOX went on the radio and started to rail look at Diddy at the time because, they were stuck in their deal. They thought that their deal was unfair and I never really understood what they were talking about.
Julian Petty: Well, here’s the funny thing. Londell, that was his specialty — getting artists out of deals. Well, he’s the guy that got Prince out of his deal with Warner years ago but, he was also very instrumental in getting the Lox out of that deal and re-negotiating 112’s deal; a whole bunch of stuff with Bad Boy. These are those very one-sided agreements. It’s tough because you sign something when you’re young and someone is sort of dangling a carrot in front of you, which you think is your dream and future. Often times, people enter into these deals just hastily even if they have a lawyer because, often times, their lawyers are just rubber stamping. They’re just trying to get it done to get the fee. I was never in that business. I was never trained that way. I want to be with people throughout their career. Get in early, stay with them, help them build a team and help them build a career. I’m not really into business with just doing a deal and like okay, bye. I’m not in that business, man.
DX: A lot of artists can feel trapped in a deal. What can they do to not end up in a deal like that?
Julian Petty: Well first, I asked people when they first come out, why do you want a record deal? Do you want a record deal to become famous? Do you want a record deal for money? What do you want to do? Because, if you want to make money, then a record deal is not necessarily the way to do that. It has to be, do you want your autonomy? Do you want to make your art and make money? It is often times a combination of those things. The best thing I can do or what I always try to do is have my clients go into deals with their eyes open and having them fully aware the breadth of the deal.
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If you go in and you’re like, “This is what it is. We’re going in with a major and we can tell by the other artists on their roster the type of music they really push and promote. The A&R who is hot and heavy on your record, we know the type of stuff he really likes. This is what you’ve done before and it was successful. Then there’s a pretty big chance that this is what they want.” Even though they say, “No we just want you to go the with what’s hottest. Now listen, we have this other deal over here it’s smaller, it’s indie but, they’re just like give us the record. You just give us the finished record and we’ll market and promote it.” My big thing is to educate and make sure your interests are protected. The manager, for the most part, is the one advising on the career. “Like you should do this record versus this record or this film versus that film,” but I just try to keep them educated.
DX: So there’s usually never a one size fits all kind of scenario.
Julian Petty: Definitely not.
Navigating Lawsuit For Biggie’s “The What,” & What Robin Thicke Did Wrong
DX: What caught my eye was last year when Biggie’s estate was offensively sued about, “The What.” I think there was an original person on the case, and then they moved the case over to you. Is that correct?
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Julian Petty: No, that was my case, we’ve moved over to this firm. We started about seven months ago and my partner Stacy Riordan is a litigator so she’s handling the litigation. I’m a transactional attorney. I do deals. So, if something comes up, we can just grab somebody here.
DX: Ok, I see.
Julian Petty: Yeah, we actually filed a declaratory judgment. We pretty much did the same thing that T.I., Robin Thicke and Pharrell did and the judge thought it best that the matter be handled in New York, and that there was more of a nexus for New York in this matter. Which we still aren’t in agreement with 100 percent but right now we’re actually waiting for our motion for summary judgment where we basically stated that this case has no merit and it should be dismissed. So, that’s kind of where we are. We’re sort of in a holding pattern.
DX: So it brings up an interesting issue right now because since the previous case you mentioned with Robin Thicke and “Blurred Lines” there’s been this idea that anybody can get sued for anything. Do you agree with that sentiment right now?
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Julian Petty: I think yes and no. Well, first of all anyone can be sued. As long as is it passes the frivolous threshold, which is a pretty low threshold in the U.S, people can be sued. It’s a pretty tough reality because; unlike in the UK where the loser has to pay the legal fees of the winner, it’s not like that in the U.S. So, you’re in a pretty tough position if you have to defend yourself in a federal court which, copyright law falls under or even state courts like a breach of contract matter.
Specifically, about the Robin Thicke and Marvin Gaye matter. I don’t think that case was as much a copyright infringement issue regarding the final decision, as much as it was an unsympathetic witness and that witness being Robin Thicke. This was a jury trial and the jury looked around at Robin Thicke and they heard his testimony about drug use. And he made some inconsistent statements and all this stuff. Then he said this thing about how he didn’t write anything but he took credit. I think they just looked at that and said, “Eh this just doesn’t feel right.” You have the estate over here. Historically in America, there have been a number of times where great African Americans artists have been taken advantage. I think all of that kind of played in the psyche of the jury and they just awarded the estate.
How Julian Petty Got Started In The Industry
DX: You kind of just waited around Londell McMillan’s office everyday for your internship?
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Julian Petty: I started out as an intern. He was the guy who had those incredible clients. I can’t take credit and say Prince was my client or Michael was my client. Those were his clients and I was his right-hand man. I just worked on everything for him. I had an incredible experience. I would never go out there and be like “Michael was my guy.” It’s not like that. I met him once but I did work on a ton of things for him and it was great. I started as an intern like many people in the entertainment business. At first, it was free for the whole summer and when I went back to school when I wasn’t in class I was at his firm. I was at his firm because I had summer. So, I just kind of stuck around, learned and just tried to soak in everything I could.
Julian Petty: I mean I started my whole introduction into the entertainment business with an internship at Def Jam Records after my second summer.
DX: 1996, right?
Julian Petty: Yup! I worked with Jazz Young. She was the product manager. The product at the time was Foxy Brown, Eric Sermon, The Nutty Professor Soundtrack and some other stuff. It was free, but I actually had to pay to work because I lived in Long Island.So I had to take the train from Long Island to Manhattan every day but, I loved it. I really loved it and the energy was incredible. I learned so much and I actually still do business with these same people. It’s nuts, the music business has not changed that much. I am a testament and a true believer of internships.
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Vince Staples As Long Beach’s Nas
DX: Vince Staples, he’s a very straightforward person. Are you kind of like telling him, “Hey Vince you might want to chill a little bit?”
Julian Petty: [Laughs] Every once in a while yeah but he also has an incredible manager, a guy by the name of Corey Smith. He was very instrumental in Talib Kweli’s career, Mos Def’s career, and Dave Chappelle. He’s done an incredible job in guiding this young man, but Vince is the truth. Listen, he is the truth. He speaks what’s on his mind, he lives those words, and he’s extremely talented and very dedicated to his craft. I’m impressed. I’m just happy to be on his team. He’s always thanking me for closing his deal and making sure he’s protected. I’m thanking him like “Dude I feel like I’m a part of Illmatic. For real, boy, I’m not playing!
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Julian Petty: It’s Illmatic. I’m telling you its Illmatic!
DX: Summertime ‘06, is the Long Beach Illmatic did you just say that?
Julian Petty:Summertime ‘06, is the Long Beach Illmatic! I’m not playing.
DX: Wow. That’s a quote!
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Julian Petty: He’s nice. I’ve seen his stage performance. He has improved dramatically after SXSW. Kills Pitchfork; like commanded the stage, moved around, worked his voice and he’s making better records. Working with No ID has been a blessing. I can be a publicist for Vince Staples! That’s how excited I am about him.
DX: To have that kind of enthusiasm out of someone who works for them in legal is incredible.
Julian Petty: Part of it is that I’m a fan of the music. I’ve always been a fan of the music. I think it kind of gives me better insight into talking to younger people who want to be artist and it just gives me more motivation. I’m like; I actually listen to their songs and know lyrics to talk about stuff. I’m like yeah, you sound like this person but they don’t ever listen to me.
Did Biggie Get A Raw Deal From Puffy?
DX: I have one more question. It’s something I’ve always been curious about, feel free not to answer. There’s been all these rumors over the years about the Biggie’s deal with Puff, is it as bad as people think it is and did Big actually getting paid what you think was his due?
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Julian Petty: Number one, definitely not as bad and I don’t know who ever said it was all that bad. Big had a new artist deal, but Puff definitely made an investment in him. Remember this was the time when labels did a ton of artist development. The Bigge that was on “Party and Bullshit” was a very different Biggie that was on “Juicy.” So I think Puffy did an incredible job.
It was definitely not a horrible deal and listen he brought the world arguably one of the top three rap artists of all time.
DX: Or the number one.
Julian Petty: My number two. My number one is Rakim, but yeah definitely not and there were amendments over the years. I can say that we’ve worked very close with them, I’ve actually worked with the estate since I was an intern. As early as 2004, I have been doing things with the estate. So I’ve seen a number of things the way they prep records. It’s a good relationship and everyone is benefitting from it. Yeah definitely nothing negative to say about Mr. Combs.
