With its ever-changing cast of emcees, deejays, dancers and graffiti artists, Hip Hop could be classified as the music worldâs answer to William Shakespeare. Thereâs certainly enough drama to go around as well as love, passion and creativity. And no shortage of plot twists to boot.
And while new playwrights strive to win over audiences with their meaningful works, older thespians continue their quest to carry on the traditions of those before them as they serve up hard knock siloquies for fans to digest. Among the lyricists doing their part are Keith Murray and Canibus.
As The Undergods, the pair is formidable enough as solo artists, with Murray and Canibus constructing notable quotables over the years with classic hits and standout guest appearances on various remixes and collaborations. Now, the longtime friends have joined together to assume a new identity as the Undergods.
Armed with lyrics and knowledge, the group released a seven-song EP in 2009 to give fans a taste of what was to come. The result emerged with the Undergods full-length debut, In Gods We Trust: Crush Microphones To Dust.
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The 18-track opus, which includes appearances from Crooked I, Planet Asia, Sermon, Jake One and Tech N9ne, serves as a vehicle to express Murray and Canibusâ love for Hip Hop as well as officially introduce listenerâs to Rapâs latest duo. According to Murray, the Undergods stands as a natural evolution of the musical and personal bond he shares with Canibus.
Agreeing to a rare interview, Canibus spoke with HipHopDX, with Murray, to discuss their formation, their mutual respect for each other and why itâs important for Hip Hop artists and listeners to stand strong and united among those plotting its downfall. While the pair managed their own interview, the lyrical inisights burn bright in the face of the so-called hijacked culture
The History Of The Undergods
HipHopDX: Pretty much, a lot of folks know you guys individually. Your reputation, your lyrical prowess, all of that, the classics that youâve dropped over the years. And now youâve come together as the Undergods. What is it that they two of you have as a solid unit that fans may not get from hearing and or seeing you on your own?
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Keith Murray: The fact that me and [Canibus] is brothers. We come from Long Island. He knows my family. I know his family. I know his kids. He knows my kids. This is just not some studio cipher, studio come-together-thing. Weâre brothers.
Canibus: Thatâs right
Keith Murray: So simple and plain. You canât pan us as whoâs the better lyricist or whoâs in the better group. Weâre brothers.
They say never mix business or personal life together. Weâre brothers. It ainât no check or thing for money or nothing like that. Weâre the super underground group. We have yet to reap our benefits and weâre brothers. Weâre covered in the blood of Jesus, Muhammad, Allah or whoever, yâknow what I mean?
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Canibus: Thatâs right. Thatâs what I was sayinâ before [Keith] Murray, before he got, when he got disconnected. What I said was Murray came out in â92, soâŠ
Keith Murray: No, I came out in â93 on Erick Sermonâs No Pressure. I did âHostile.â The Most Beautifullest Thing in the World came out in â94.
Canibus: The whole world knew who he was. The whole world was looking at Murray for his lyricism and for just how he came out in the game. Standing on a Lex-bubble, you know what Im sayinâ.
Keith Murray: Erick Sermon gave me that call in Atlanta and IâŠ
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Canibus: Itâs important for people to see that and to know that when Murray was out, I was still lookinâ on the TV screen and watching Yo! MTV Raps and Rap City. So getting the opportunity to work with him later on in my Rap career, itâs a big deal to me because I can still take myself back to â92, 93 when he came in the game and just the effect and the influence that he had on just lyricists in general, for the people who hadnât made up their mind how they were gonna present themselves and what type of style they were gonna come with, Murray was somebody thatâŠ
Keith Murray: I gave birth to a million emcees in the gameâŠ
Canibus: Real talk. Real spit. Because a lot of emcees, they work together and they canât reallyâŠor emcees that even donât work together. They canât work together because they canât event admit that this artist influenced them
Keith Murray: Yeah because their ego is too big. You donât edge God out. E.G.O. Edge. God. Out. You donât do that
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Canibus: So thatâs an important facet of the whole thing. The chemistry comes from just being 100 with the whole idea that, you know, he was out first. He influenced so many, so many different components of lyricism that any emcee that says they donât remember him, itâs not true. And the same thing goes for me. I came out six years after Murray, soâŠ
Keith Murray: Itâs equality in the mathematics that we study. Equality. Six years equality.
Canibus: Actual fact: a lot of artists was influenced by some of the stuff that I put down too, but people just kind jump over things. They jump over where their influences came from and you know by doing thatâŠ
Keith Murray: They change they dialogue. They wanna get money and pay their rent and stuff of that nature.
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Canibus: You can pay your rent and still keep it real too, you know.
DX: The chemistry is obviously there. So how would you describe the Undergods, with all that youâve said? How would you sum up the Undergods?
Keith Murray: I gotta let Canibus answer that.
DX: Who are the Undergods?
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Canibus: The Undergrounds is an underground Hip HopâŠ
Keith Murray: Like Kurt Cobane or Jimmy Hendrix.
Canibus: Lyrical titans, you know what Iâm sayinâ, underground lyrical titansâŠ
Keith Murray: And mainstream, like self-contained.
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Canibus: That love the culture to the point where we sacrifice everything.
Keith Murray: Like Martin Luther King.
Canibus: Thatâs right. We sacrifice everything for it and never ask for anything in return.
Keith Murray: Because the laws of nature will provide for us.
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Canibus: Thatâs right
DX: Definitely, it shows.
Keith Murray: And thatâs a big blessing coming from you Chris, HipHopDX. A lot of people might overlook it. Like XXL, The Source or Hip-Hop Weekly. Whatâs the other one that says âStep Your Rap Game Upâ?
DX:XXL?
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Keith Murray: Yeah. Cool. Now weâre on the same pageâŠWhen we walk in the 7-Eleven, theyâre all in our face.
Canibus: We been puttinâ it down before those publications, when they was magazines. We been putting it down. Well Murray been puttinâ it down. AÂ lot of publications was even in the store.
DX: The Undergods are the latest in a long line of Rap duos. You go a legendary list that includes EPMDâŠ
Keith Murray: Erick Sermon sat and he executive produced the Undergods album and the EP with M-Eighty. We donât got Pete Rock. We donât got DJ Premier on the album. We got Bronze Nazareth. And we got up and coming artists. The Undergods. The Undergod producers.
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Canibus: We do want the listener and the readers to understand that Hip Hop got hijacked. Because there was time where there were publications and now you got a lot of online publications. But itâs the same thing. There was as time when they didnât have no advertising dollars. So they didnât have no sponsors, no advertising. They used to grade the albums based off of the cup is half full. But it was their culture. They respected the culture, number oneâŠ
Keith Murray: Yeah because they graded it off of what was originality and what was sacred.
Canibus: Thatâs right. And then it got hijacked to where they started to get advertising because it blew upâŠ
Keith Murray: Yeah and anybody and everybody and their mama could do it.
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Canibus: It blew up so big they got hijacked by the advertising dollars because the publications had started to take the advertising dollars and then you started to see the magazines thicken and you seen more ads in there. And then they stopped caring about looking out for the artists. They started to just write whatever about the artists because they was getting the advertising dollars now.
So thatâs around the time when I started noticing the quotes that they would take from artists would be quotes, the ones that they would put in all big caps and the ones that they put at the top of the articles. Those lines and the quotes that they would take. It would be quotes that I knowâŠ
Keith Murray: It would be the quotes that would get people to listen.
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The Undergods On How Hip Hop Has Been Hijacked
Canibus: It would be quotes that I know if the artist was standing in front of the editor, he couldnât put that. The editor wouldnât be able to put that in the magazine. So thatâs where it got hijacked at, when the advertising dollars started coming in. They started to grade
And so the Undergods are basically, we them dudes thatâŠwe rep Hip Hop before it got hijacked and we rep it now, regardless of whether itâs hijacked or not. We still step to it and give it 100% all the way. And the whole effect of it is received by our core fans, the ones that remember what Hip Hop, the love and just the common respect among the artists in it. All the elements. Not just lyricism but all the elements.
DX: Fellas. So with that in mind, I gotta ask: going on the thing with the Rap duos. With the EPMDs, the Gang Starrs, Eric B. & Rakims, how do you plan on carrying the tradition that theyâve laid out with generating with classics and a lasting legacy? How do the Undergods carry that torch? How do you plan on carrying that torch?
Canibus: We been carrying it. We never put it down. Thatâs what Iâm saying. Thatâs an objective answer.
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DX: Seeing as how both of you have achieved a bit of mainstream attention when you came on the scene. Which, in your opinion, which audience is the most challenging to win over?
Keith Murray: Why would you want to win something over? If you have a formula that corners the market and makes money, why would you want a third person to come in and say âYo, we want to go somewhere, uncharted territories that people donât understand.â You stay with what you know and who youâre comfortable with. Why would you do that?
Canibus: Thatâs other people trying to expand. But weâve always been underground.
Keith Murray: Thatâs what happened with Keith Murray and Def Jam [Records]. Kevin [Liles] and Lyor [Cohen] brought me in and then the [sales] happened and they were leaving. And then they put me with A&Râs I didnât understand. Erick Sermon wasnât there. He came in later. Why would I mess up my footing to go please people that donât understand me in the first place? Stick with what you know and live out your existence. Thatâs the way of the world.
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Canibus: Weâre all under the same banner. Itâs Hip Hop, man.
If we were under attack from something else, then we would always remember, âYo man I know more about this dude just from listeninâ to his lyrics than I know about this person over here in politics no matter what theyâre saying on the screen because theyâre talkinâ a bunch of semantics and itâs hard to keep up with what theyâre saying. But I know this artist just based off of the lyrics that he was spittin.â Or I know this artist, this turntablist. Or the other elements I know the respect that they got for it just based off the amount of work they put in, the amount of years they put in. Itâs so obvious, man.
We was the first genre to go to guerilla style at the charts. The first genre. We went guerilla at the charts, man. When Puff put Craig Mack out, they came down to Brooklyn. [The L.O.X. manager] Super Mario and them came down to Brooklyn with the Big Mac, the cases the [McDonaldâs] Big Mac was in. and they put the tape in there with [Notorious] B.I.G. and Total and 112 and the L.O.X. It was in the Big Mac thing. Now if somebody canât look at that and say well, âWho was doinâ that before?â in any genre of music. Who was doinâ that first? Nobody.
A lot of these CEOs out that are out nowâŠThere are stories that I heard stories about Andre Harrell when he went up there to get the deal. When he was [half of 1980s Hip Hop duo] Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, and he was going to solicit to get himself either a production deal or possibly a record deal. I remember that he had went up there. He was trying to take the meeting. Nobody would give him the meeting. He would come up there every day. He couldnât get a meeting. So you know what he did one day after about two weeks of going up there every day and not gettinâ no meeting and leaving material and not gettinâ no callbacks? Yo, the dude just came outside and sat in front of the building, like sat in front of the steps and waited in front of the building until the CEO of that company came downâŠ
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Keith Murray: Those are our forefathers. You got George Washington. You got Abraham Lincoln. You got all of them. Those are our forefathers. Kool Herc, Russell Simmons.
Canibus: And they earned that respect. If you think about those sacrifices. If he didnât come downstairs and just stayed put, I think it was in a bookâŠ
Keith Murray: And you canât forget about Rick Rubin too, who was the liberal white guy that held the flag for black people.
Canibus: Thatâs right. Rubin put his neck in the guillotine to make sure that Hip Hop music got heard on a wide-scale level, on a global scale. Like I said, itâs a travesty when you see these names get taken out their slots because if you can take those names out of the slots then naturally artists like me and Murray is gonna definitely be dealing with a headache when it comes to that because if you took the real pioneers out of them slots, then that means the second wave like Murray and the third or fourth wave like myself, itâs almost inevitable that that wouldâve happened.
And the most important thing that Iâm trying to get across to you and to the listeners and the readers is that if these things happen to the first wave of Hip Hop, the second wave and the, third waveâŠweâre in the fourth and fifth wave right now and all the subsequent waves that are gonna come after, they need to realize that if those things were done to us, what the fuck do you think is gonna happen to you?
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DX: Definitely something to think about.
Canibus: Before you know it, one day theyâre gonna turn around, just like it happened to us. One day theyâre gonna turn around and people are gonna be calling them irrelevant but itâs gonna be something even worse. They think thatâs all they got to look forward to. Itâs gonna be something even worse. Possibly something where itâs freedom of speech ⊠Itâs possible when youâre dealing with something like the Internet, itâs very possible that certain things thatâs written on the Internet. Those words could be keyed in and you could be booted off the Internet. So now people could be regulating your speech. Then what you think hip-hop will sound like?
Keith Murray: Itâs gonna be robotic.
DX: Itâs definitely not gonna sound like whatâs itâs supposed toâŠ
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Canibus: No. Thatâs what weâre gonna be saying, but the people who are gonna be listening to it and loving it. And dudes like us are gonna be saying âYo man. I donât give a fuck about that old shit. I like it the way it is.â And dudes like us are gonna be running around tight at it and ostracized from it. And so thatâs my point.
Keith Murray: Thatâs why Nas said âHip-hop is dead.â He didnât say as we know it.
Canibus:Â Nas knew what he was talkinâ about.
Keith Murray: âBis, he left it up to the listener to say âas we know it.â
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Canibus: But the listeners and the readers stopped sayinâ Hip Hop, the Hip Hop consumer base and the Hip Hop participant. Not the people on the field. Iâm talkinâ about the court system. Iâm talkinâ about a lot of titles. A lot of titles, like âtakinâ down Hip Hop,â âthe return of Hip Hop.â Like how many titles are in there or out there where pioneers or second and third wave artists are sayinâ âTaking Back Hip Hop,â âThe Return of Hip Hop,â The Rebirth of Hip Hop,â you know what Iâm sayinâ, âHip Hop raw uncut.â That is a signal. Weâre sendinâ a signal to the current generation, like âYo, letâs take it back.â
And so up to this point, I really havenât seen a take back assault. I havenât seen that. So when they donât like the quality of what Hip Hop sounds like right now, they canât blame us as the artists thatâs making the music. They have to do some self-reflection. They have to introspectively look at the situation and realize that it was as much their responsibility just as much as it was ours. And really almost, even more so than it is ours because we ainât gonna turn our backs on the way we put it down. Weâre not gonna compromise.
I got a sayinâ. Itâs almost a motto. I say âI donât know how itâs goinâ down. All I know is how itâs not gonna go down.â And so I say that to say this: when you say youâre committed to something and you love something, thatâs because you do not compromise on it. You donât budge. And so you canât say you love something and then compromise about it because that means you donât love it because you compromised. So you when you deal with people, and not just the Undergods man. Like I said, the list goes on and on. But people need to pay homage to that, to all other artists that came to put it down. Not just individually, but collectively that put us all on those categories and offer it back in such a way that it will revitalize and reinvigorate us to give more because at certain points, you start to get worn out about it. You start to realize itâs been an uphill battle for 15 years. How much longer, you know what Iâm sayinâ, do these listeners and readers expect their favorite artist from another era to fight for it if they donât reinforce us or support us?
If your artist has strong opinions, how can you have a weak opinion? If the artist that youâre talking about has a strong opinion, how can you have a weak opinion about that artist? You need to also have a strong opinion, if not a stronger opinion because there are gonna be people thatâs tellinâ you âNah, man. This dude right here, he donât sound the same no more.â So you have to step up and be like, âYo. You donât really know what youâre talking about. Have you listened to they catalogues. Do you know the different choice they put down? Do you understand the work thatâs been put in?â
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Alright. Since you just talkinâ and youâre not really sayinâ nothinâ, letâs quantify it like this. You canât have a strong opinion about something that you never put in on. So in other words, somebody whoâs never made a beat in their life, has never gone anywhere or never wrote a rhyme thatâs been heard outside the people in their local area, how can you have a weak and critical opinion of somebody whoâs been all over the globe? Â
DX: Good point.
Canibus: Two hundred-thousand air miles? I mean, come on dude. Thatâs like 10 times around the fuckinâ planet.
DX: I definitely hear you. I could play devilâs advocate with you on that and everything. There are selective âŠ
Canibus: What you gonna do? Youâre saying devilâs advocate. Say what? Iâm interested. What?
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DX: I could definitely play devilâs advocate with what youâre sayin.
Canibus: Spit it out. What? What?
DX: You have âselective fansâ that only listen to certain tracks and base an opinion off of that as opposed to your whole catalog or most of your catalog where they can get a solid opinion about where youâre going musically. So thereâs like a ton of factors that you could factor in to saying that, like âOh, he doesnât sound the sameâ or âHe needs to sound like this.â âŠ.Unless you heard or kept up with the artist and where theyâre going musically, then all you have is that selective catalog.
Canibus: I took in everything you just said, but earlier on in some of the earliest stages when it was still hand to hand. Hip Hop was hand-to-hand, meaning that there was no way to come around and say something that criticize the art form without beinâ present. So it was hand to hand. If you got something to say, you gotta to go to the jams in the park or you gotta go to the spot where the artist is at. You gotta be bout it with what you feel. Where now, thereâs a lot of faceless characters and avatars and people that they never listen to Hip Hop. Theyâre the ones thatâs puttinâ it on the Hip Hop in order to debunk it and are program to pull the feet out from underneath the culture. You criticize in your delivery to fit in with everyone else âŠItâs like whatâs goinâ on with this fake twitter shit, with me and this fake Twitter shit alright?
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Canibus On His Twitter Imposter
DX: I was gonna ask you aboutâŠ
Canibus: Listen to me. How vexed do you think you would be if somebody was out there impersonating you, right? Now I donât fuck with Twitter like that. My real Twitter is @DaRealCanibus. Thatâs my real Twitter. Now, if you go to it and look, I donât really fuck with the shit like that.
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But back to what I was sayinâ. How vexed would you feel if somebody or several people out there was impersonating you and talkinâ to the whole world about you, you know, in a negative way and creating situations that were absolutely negative for you and then the publications that you been on â Iâve been on HipHopDX back in the day in the early stages. Iâve been on and in all the magazines. Murray too, but personally just me. I did all that shit. So how is a magazine or some type of online site or whatever or just in general a Hip Hop participant, a Hip Hop publication, how are they gonna promote the negative Twitter account, promote the account thatâs talkinâ shit ? Why doesnât somebody thatâs down with me or somebody that knows me blow that fake Twitter up?
I tell you how. How hard is it to say, âYo if this really is Canibus, what car was you drivinâ in â92? What was the first studio that me and you met at? What was the name of the engineer? What label was I signed to? Ask a personal question that you and that artist knows in order to blow them up in front of everybody.
But see, thatâs not what goes on anymore. Now, you got situations where somebody, a publication will promote the negativity and escalate it instead of trying to nullify it and put the fires out. Hip Hop is on some Jerry Springer [Show] shit, like some hood Jerry Springer shit where itâs like everybody goinâ up to Jerry Springer strapped.
DX: I get what youâre saying. A lot of the sites, a lot of the publications, you know how they doâŠI think what youâre saying, if Iâm reading you correctly, saying why didnât I go deeper and investigate it to really see if this is the person that Twitter claims to be rather than some fake imposter.
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Canibus: Yeah. You say why not. I say you have to do that. You have to do that because if you donât do that to an artist like myself then what happens when someone elseâs account gets hijacked? Somebody thatâs so big and verified but it still gets hacked because you know thatâs possible, you know. A verified account can get hacked.
DX: Itâs been done. Itâs definitely been done.
Canibus: Thatâs right. Thatâs right. So my thing is like âYo man, if Hip Hop donât come together as a whole and collectively add on to it, then how long do these individual people think itâs gonna last?
DX: Iâve always respected the music and the lyrics that you put down. From the mixtapes to the label and the studio albums, you definitely put it down. Many, many times Iâll be rewinding or listening to the track over just to fully get what youâre saying. Sometimes it would be like years and then when it finally hits, I get a better appreciation for it. Iâve said it many times, but thank you. I really do appreciate it.
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Canibus: Thank you too. I gotta tell you. Itâs one other thing I would like people to know. For artists, when youâŠIâve always pushed it this way. If Hip Hop paid more homage to Hip Hop then everybody individually would be better off. Everybody doesnât have to like certain artists. Youâre not forced to like certain artists. You make up your opinion in your mind on what you like. And so nothingâs wrong with that. You have the freedom of choice and the freedom of will to decide what you want to open your mind and your heart to.
Thatâs always been a major component of Hip Hop is. Thatâs what fuels the creativity, someone wanting to be different and wanting to add on a different facet to the art form. Like I said, if people paid more homage to Hip Hop then the components are automatically boosted in to the categories they need to be in. Thatâs why itâs a completely selfless statement Iâm making. I just feel like deliberately the powers that be jump over these selfless statements and the selfless actions that I take on behalf of Hip Hop and they only focus on the things that have to be done in order to sustain operations. They jump over it on purpose deliberately. Like instead of saying âWell damn, letâs publish the words that this guy is talking about. Heâs speaking on Hip Hop needs to collectively have a respect for the art form itself and then automatically those components, theyâre automatically put in the position that theyâve earned.â Instead of doinâ that, they jump over it and they X that out and paint over it and hide it and cover it up. And then they expose the things thatâs ultimately gonna shut Hip Hop down in five years or in 10 years.
I mean personally, this year is a big year for collective thought in terms of just globally. Everybody on the planet is gonna experience things this year thatâs will personally effect everyone and collectively affect the entire globe. And so if we donât get it together when these other situations arise, then itâs gonna be a cold day in hell man. Itâs gonna be really heartbreakinâ to see how communicationâŠlike people ainât even gonna be able to communicate in that time because they didnât practice at it. Thereâs no practice.
Hip Hop really now needs some more home training now, you know what Iâm sayinâ. People need to start being courteous to one another and start just realizing that if you want respect that means you come with respect to get respect. Itâs a one-way street or a one -lane road that we share. Like when youâre in a third world country, sometimes thereâs no two lanes. Itâs just one lane and you have to share it. You donât have a choice.
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But now, thereâs a million lanes that people can just make up that lane but that lane is an illusion because when it comes down to it, collectively, we are responsible for one another. Weâre responsible for the art. Everybody is. Outside of Hip Hop music, there are things that are facing us on a global level, on a human level on this earth thatâs gonna take place. Whereâs the practice? Iâm not just talkinâ about music. Sports, any types of recreational things. All of these things are gifts that the gods gave us to communicate with each other and to have a relationship with one another. Theyâre common denominators for all of us.
Itâs like when thereâs a gameâs on or the fightâs on, everybodyâs watching the game. Everybodyâs doing that, so thatâs the practice. But now it just seems Hip Hop itself âŠman, most people donât even understand that concept. They really think theyâre gonna shit on everybody in the world in Hip Hop and then it will never happen to them. Thatâs what they think.
Thatâs why Iâve said Iâve always responded to issues. Iâve never proactively or preemptively attacked anything in this music because I know that the same thing that youâre doing, karmaically it will come back to you. But now, thatâs what I said. Thatâs why a nigga like me so vexed because motherfuckers jump over what happened to me or what was done to me. And they do it for other artists too, but I can only speak for my experience. They jump over what was done, what Iâm responding to. They just turn the cameras and the microphones on when Iâm responding. That ainât right. Tell the truth, man, because a half truth is still a motherfuckinâ lie. And itâs worse than a straight up lie because itâs a half truth. So youâre gonna have people who they identify the truth they gonna step over there and get the half truth. And then get completely sabotaged because you gave âem a half truth. So a half truth is worse than a 100% lie in most instances.
And I feel like thatâs whatâŠI got a lot of things to offer Hip Hop. People behave as though everything thatâs been done in the past and thatâs it. So now Iâm out of juice. I ainât got nothinâ more for Hip Hop. Thatâs ridiculous. I got all these experiences, I have all of these things Iâve learned from Hip Hop and from the world and Iâm sharing, taking it in, chewing it up, adding different things to it and then re-servicing it to the culture. How can you look at that and toss it away like this person canât add on to Hip Hop no more?
DX: You make a valid point. I feel what youâre saying. Thereâs so many issues that need to be addressed, that should be addressed that itâs ridiculous that we donât take time out to address them and really get the situation so we can resolve it and grow.
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Canibus: Youâre right. Iâm to the point where instead of me fighting, instead of me just straight up⊠because I did that already. I did that. Instead of me going down the same route that Iâve done before only to have it backfire, itâs important now to just give a warning out and say âYo man. You think youâre hurting me now and you think that youâre stopping me or you think that youâre doing something absolutely negative to me, but youâre doing it to yourself. Youâre not stopping me from makinâ my music, writinâ my rhymes, saying what the fuck I want to say. Youâre not doing that.â Youâre hurting yourself because the experiences that artists like Murray⊠they was talkinâ about EPMD. Make sure you throw K-Soloâs name in there up at the top because he was one of the best that was also involved in that. So early in the interview throw his name because he was one of the best. Before the Hit Squad⊠He was with the Hit Squad but he still had his albums that he dropped. You think about âThe Fugitiveâ and âTales from the Crack Side,â like I did it on âThe Ghost of Hip-Hopâs Pastâ and all that.
Itâs like now I go on. I see the Undergods album beinâ promoted and stuff but the venue thatâs promotingâ the Undergods album they donât wanna say nothinâ about Lyrical Law. See? It doesnât make no sense. Why you just want to sell the Undergods and you donât want me to sell Lyrical Law, you donât want to sell Lyrical Law?
DX: I definitely want to touch on that particular track and really get to the heart of that track in itself?
Canibus:Lyrical Law is an album, Chris
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DX: See? My bad. Thatâs my fault for not knowing.
Canibus:Lyrical Law is an album. Itâs not just a track. It was âLyrical Law vsâŠ.â or âŠwhat I got on the album is Lyrical Law ciphers, theyâre ciphers. Golden ciphers, cipher of steel . Itâs ciphering because thatâs another aspect of Hip Hop that is really almost dead. The idea of cipherin.â
Remember cipherinâ was early. It was cipherin first, then battlinâ was something that an artist would do to defend himself because it would always be an artist that attacked in a cipher. Not always. Sometimes, most times niggas would just get together and be able to cipher. And then everybody would be like âOh!â Everybody just love his input. Itâs all collective, everybody adding on. Then if for some reason two artists donât swing the same way then they clash and the battle happens subsequently because of that.
Ciphers are where it started. Hip Hop needs to go back to ciphers man because itâs obvious now that nobody really wants to battle anymore if they stand something to lose or if somebody whoâs their boss is telling them not to. But whatâs wrong with a cipher, though?
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DX: I was gonna add to that with the freestyle, the art of freestyle. What happened to that? That in addition to ciphering is practically nonexistent.
Canibus: Yeah, but see the world is so complicated now that freestyle is overrated because I donât want to sit there..
DX: I hate to interrupt you but, I love the art of freestyle. I canât do it, but I love when an MC can just go off the top and really flow.
Canibus: Yeah, but do you write? Do you write rhymes?
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DX: I donât write rhymes. I love rap and everything and Iâve played around with freestyles with my friends but I havenât put anything, any pen to paper
Canibus: Alright. So youâre not an expert. So let me tell you as an expert. Iâm telling you this as an expert. You canât tell, if somebodyâs an expert, you canât tell whether itâs off the top or whether itâs written. You canât tell because an artist can take something that theyâve already got and mix it with something thatâs goinâ on currently and youâll think itâs all off the top.
Thatâs a part of the whole charismatic part of Hip Hop that everybody loves because itâs like you got darts and nobody knows what you got. Thatâs why I say the word âfreestyleâ and the idea of freestyle is overrated now because the world is a very complicated place compared to what it was like in the â80s or the â90s or even there in the first 10 years of the millennium. From 2000 to 2010. The world is way more complicated in 2011 than it was in 2004 or 2005. So when you take all of those things in to account or eve just the most important ones, then you have to admit that a freestyle could be boring if they donât respect the art enough to really have catalog. Like you got darts for days. When you have darts for days, now youâre freestyle is not overrated.
For somebody to just pick up the mic or just their acapella to be spittinâ some stupid shit, look Iâve put too much in to sit down and listen to that. I donât need to waste my time doinâ that or listeninâ to that because Itâs substandard. Itâs subpar.
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DX: And I guess pretty much itâs having pride in what you spit. You donât want to spit something thatâŠ
Canibus:Right. Right. Thatâs what I mean. Youâre absolutely right. Thatâs what I was sayinâ. You understand what I mean because at a certain point, when it was back in the day, there was only maybe a dozen artists that everybody knew was out. That was it. Signed, period, out. Got albums out. That was during the [Big Daddy] Kane era and the Rakim era. The Juice Crew, [Kool] G Rap, Craig Gâs, Masta Aces, you know what Iâm sayinâ, that era. Naturally, the competition was amongst them.
But the culture started to expand and become this mega financialâŠit became a boominâ industry. And so the natural occurrence that happens after the industry starts to boom and really expand, then now the competition gets fierce. So artists were forced toâŠMurray was one of the first artists in the second wave of Hip Hop. He was one of the first that, if not top tier in the second wave. When I say second wave I mean not early â80s, man. He was definitely spittinâ hard in the late â80s because he came out in the early â90s. So that means in â88 he had skills. You know that, right? You wouldâve had to have had skills four years prior to you coming out. It wouldâve took about that long or maybe a little bit longer to get a record deal, to just get recognition.
Get somebody to be like, âOh yo that kid is nice. He got darts. He can get busy.â So now when itâs so fierce and because you got kids that donâtâŠHip Hop to them is something to do. You got people where they donât take it that serious and you have people that donât have to take it that serious that and can still participate in and get the most out of it and get more out of it than people who do take it serious.
So when you got that kind of dynamic involved, I really think that straight up freestyle without any type ofâŠso what you gonna do? You just gonna stand there and just talk about shit thatâs right there or just pull shit straight out of your mind? If you think that thatâs more interesting than somebody who can do that plus and then some, then I really gotta, I gotta question what it is youâre lookinâ for because itâs not that type of game. Itâs not that type of party no more. Itâs fierce now.
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Your favorite artist, either freestyle or artist who adds both the element of freestyle and written, youâre favorite artist, the one that you pegged that heâs the one, I guarantee you that thereâs a lot of different styles that they got and a lot of different ways that they can project they style. And itâs not all what you think.
You just think they just come off the head and do that? Yo, horseshit. You canât. Anybody whoâs just cominâ off the head is not gonna be as interesting as somebody who has put in way more and comes to the plate way more prepared and prepared for more than just a freestyle.
Thatâs why when I was cominâ up and when I was young, and I was on, I could rhyme for four hours straight nonstop because it wasnât all freestyle. If it was all freestyle, wouldnât nobody listen, including me.
DX: True. True.
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Canibus: Who the fuck wants to sit there and listen to some random bullshit for four hours and then walk away from it, trying to convince somebody else that it was dope? Knock it off man
So just like now, itâs the same thing with all the other industries, Chris. The automotive industry, the financial industry. You can do online banking now. Imagine a bank that says, âAw naw. Listen, we only deal with you gotta walk in the bank.â What the fuck kind of business are they gonna get?
If the automobile industry didnât start to step it up and start to add some of the luxury add-ons that some of the luxury manufacturers had, then people wouldâve never wanted anything but the luxury ones.
So what Iâm sayinâ is if everything else stepped up, Hip Hop needs to step up too. And Hip Hop has stepped up because you have a lot of artists that will tell you itâs freestyle, but Iâm tellinâ you, if theyâre an expert, theyâre mixing all of the elements and components that have made them who they are today. And thatâs what youâre seeinâ. Thatâs what youâre amazed by. And thatâs what they deserve, youknowwhatimsayin, the accolades and the praise for it, âGod damn, you put together some hot shit. You made that shit look like it wasâŠâ
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You canât convince me, man. I seen some of the sickest freestyle artists, artists that I know that are freestylers. If I be around âem for six months to a year, Iâll hear âem say the same rhyme, even if itâs a bar or two bars, it will be something they said before. Am I lying?
DX: Youâre right. Iâll be honest I have come across some mixtapes or even songs where itâs the same stuff he spit in that freestyle that he spit in song.
Canibus: Iâve done it. Iâm not thrashinâ anybody that does it because Iâve done it, but the whole point is when youâre sittinâ there and itâs time to get busy with it and something donât come to you or you donât wanna come off like you ainât prepared, then youâre gonna do what the next thing that comes to you. Itâs the same way with sports. Thatâs like telling somebody thatâs right-handed or kick with the right foot to go with the left without practicinâ. Itâs not possible, my dude. Theyâre gonna look uncoordinated.
And as an expert, Iâm tryinâ to put you on to that. Trust me, dude. These artists that you think are doing all freestyle, no fuckinâ way. No way, dude. Not the ones that are interesting. Not the artists people are lookinâ at like âMan, he gotta be one of the top tier freestylers in the world.â
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Man, if you think heâs not grabbing all the elements and the components from the past and just repackaging them and revitalizing and givingâ it to you, then you donât understand the natural order of things. And the natural order in everything else is that you update with the times. If you donât adapt and adjust and update, you donât even count. Nobodyâs ever gonna talk about you. Nobodyâs ever gonna be moved at what youâre doinâ.
DX: I definitely wanted to touch on the Undergods album, but also individual questions. I wanted to touch on the Horsemen as well as the Lyrical Law track to give you some space to speak on those things.
Canibusâ Manager, M-Eighty: âBis, do you want to do it on the call or do you want to do it in the e-mail.?
Canibus: Yeah, I think the e-mail is best. The reason why I say that is because thereâs things, like Iâve been trying to say through your whole interview and I think Iâve said it several times. We have to be responsible about how anything, whatâs said, we need to be responsible about how it âs repeated because I could say anything right now that is positive and then the way that itâs repeated it doesnât have the effect.
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So really what you wouldâve done, in essence, is like you wouldâve sabotaged me. You wouldâve railroaded me because here I am trying to be positive about something and trying to add on to something and do something that does not affect anyone negatively, including myself, and at the same time still promote my shit. Whatâs wrong with promoting my shit if being exact and correct and precise about the part that I play in Hip Hop and the respect that I got for it? I donât want to continue on with the propaganda. I donât want to give this propaganda machine the tools that it needs to either ruin me or the thoughts of the people who are listening to me, youknowwhatimsayin.
DX: Iâm not trying to railroad anybody or mess over anybody. This conversation has unlocked a whole of jewels that I can use. If M-Eighty is good enough to hook us up again, then I would definitely love to chat with you deeper on some of the stuff that we touched on.
Canibus: M knows how I am and he knows that I wouldnât even do this interview because I really donât even do interviews like that no more. Itâs only certain things I do. I wanted to hold the Undergods thing down because it needs to be promoted and it needs to be known that itâs available, you know what Iâm sayinâ. Itâs been a long time cominâ. We had the EP. We put that out before a year and change ago.
The fact that itâs cominâ out now instead of people sayinâ âYo man. You know, why the fuck they cominâ out with it now?â You stupid motherfucker, why would we record the shit and not put it out? What the fuck kind of question is that? If you was me and you made something and the label decided to split it and put an EP out and then that was it and then they had X amount of other songs that they werenât gonna release and they couldnât release that as a whole album because we had to go back in to record new material, why would we just drop the ball on our own shit, on our own self-expression?
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So thatâs what I mean. Nobody makes any fuckinâ sense. And my whole thing is I would rather that if you not gonna make any sense, do it to my face instead of just make no sense in the flesh where I can actively step to it because when itâs done behind the scenes it just ends up being sabotaged.
And M knows how I am. He knows I react constructively to people like you and energies such as yours. And so you can definitely check me off your list as ally and a force multiplier behind anything that youâre trying want to do.
